Erin and I had the good fortune to be interviewed for Episode 104 of the Swinging Downunder podcast. It was a wonderful experience to actually chat with Cate and Darrell instead of just riffing off their conversations as we listen. The topic? Drugs in the lifestyle. The conversation was pretty wide-ranging, and I don’t think I’m going to overlap too much here.
And I’m certainly not going to quote myself. Even my ego isn’t that big!
Cate mentioned that one of the reasons she wanted to have this particular discussion was because of questions that come up occasionally on their forum page: Is drug use prevalent in the lifestyle?
Amusing to me, this was also the topic of conversation in the April Swinger Diary podcast.
Apparently it’s a hot topic.
Swinging Downunder did a poll on their Instagram asking, “Have you seen drugs used at swingers/sex-positive events before?” Although 62% of respondents said yes, the majority of the comments said the drug was marijuana, which is legal in some areas. Only one person noted they’d seen alcohol used. No one said caffeine or nicotine.
People get selective about what is actually a drug.
It’s unsurprising that there was significant crossover between the feedback Swinging Downunder received from their pre-episode polls and that Swinger Diaries received from their listeners. A lot of comments reflected concern about people’s behavior on drugs and how drugs can affect someone’s ability to give consent.
I think those are great concerns, and I want to address them.
But First, Let’s Tackle Counter Arguments
As I formulated this blog post in my mind, I tried to take the stance of someone with little to no personal drug experience and consider their counter arguments. The most prevalent seem to be that drugs are dangerous and drugs are illegal. So let’s look at those issues first so they don’t pop up later.
I’m going to give a shout out to the documentary Neurons to Nirvana and embed the trailer below. It used to be on Netflix, but you can stream the full documentary here it seems. I cannot recommend it enough for people who want a better understanding of how substances like LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, and marajuana can be medicinal and the hypocrisy behind listing them as Schedule 1 drugs.
OK, on with the Shane Show.
Drugs Are Dangerous
That’s a broad statement. And ambiguous. Which drugs are we talking about? Dangerous how?
There is no known physically dangerous dose of marijuana, LSD, or psilocybin. In fact, there was recently an article about some people who took extremely high doses of LSD (one of them taking 550 times the normal amount, which shows you just how nontoxic LSD is to the body). Although the trip itself was rough, she actually had a positive outcome. As did others who’ve taken extremely high doses.
They aren’t addictive. Quite the opposite: Many people have attributed overcoming other addictions to psychedelic experiences. In fact, Bill Wilson, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous wanted LSD trips as part of the 12-step program. He thought it was the most effective thing in helping him get over his addiction. Other members of the governing body decided they didn’t like the idea of a drug helping people overcome addictions. They’d rather people try through sheer willpower rather than trip on LSD and seek a spiritual, life-altering experience.
Cocaine, MDMA, and amphetamines are stimulants, which can be problematic for those with heart conditions. GHB, ketamine, and Xanax are depressants, which can be dangerous to mix with other depressants, such as alcohol.
But most of these substances are less toxic than alcohol. The average overdose quantity of cocaine, for instance, is 98mg of cocaine per kilo of body weight. For me, that’s roughly 8000mg. When snorting a powder, the threshold dose is 5 to 10mg, a common dose is 30 to 60 with a heavy dose being 90mg.
If I snorted enough cocaine to get 100 people a common dose (say 5000mg), I still wouldn’t be near the overdose amount. If I drank enough vodka to get 100 people mildly drunk, I’d be dead. Heck, seems like 20 shots of vodka would do.
Not to Say Drugs Are Safe
Taking any drug has risks. Many of these substances are labeled Schedule 1 by the U.S. government, which means the government (the DEA specifically) has decided these drugs have no medicinal value and thus there is no reason for scientific research. Which means we don’t always have a lot of data about how these things work on the body. Most evidence comes from research on people who are suffering from addiction and long-term use.
However, there are known dangers, which is why teaching harm reduction is so important:
- Drug combinations—Some drugs don’t react well to others, including common prescription drugs. Before taking anything, check the chart!
- Impurity/additives—If you didn’t make the drugs yourself, you don’t know what’s in them. You don’t know if cocaine’s been cut with fentanyl or if the MDMA was pressed with meth. Test your substances.
Drugs Are Illegal
Sure, but they aren’t immoral or unethical. The U.S. government doesn’t decide which substances to make illegal in order to protect its citizens. Laws are created to protect its interests, which are usually big businesses. The DEA made MDMA a Schedule 1 drug against the recommendation of the medical community.
Decades of research and potential therapy were lost because someone didn’t like people having fun…or didn’t like people taking a drug to have fun instead of drinking alcohol. Thanks, alcohol lobbyists!
MDMA, LSD, psilocybin, marijuana—these substances cannot be patented and sold by pharmaceuticals. Psychedelics sparked the hippie counterculture of peace and free love. MDMA can make you feel love, not just for the people you are with at the time, but the afterglow can last for days. I’m not a huge conspiracy guy, but governments get their power from people being afraid, not from everyone lying around a field of flowers, basking in the sun and having sex.
Some of the worst, most addictive, life-ruining drugs are legal and available by prescription: opioids. At least they are starting to crack down on the availability of those even by prescription.
I understand that the legality issue will stop people from trying anything. Some employers do random drug tests, and I would never advocate that someone put their livelihood at risk for these experiences.
What I am advocating here is to put the legality aside as a concern. Just because I’m using illegal substances doesn’t mean I’m a bad person or that I’m an addict. Don’t use this to judge me. Because if you ever met me at a club or resort, most likely I’ve only had alcohol, but if I did have anything else, you wouldn’t be able to tell.
Which brings us right to the next point about drugs in the lifestyle….
What It Looks Likes to be High: Drugs in the Lifestyle
Let’s look at some of the feedback Swinging Downunder received about concerns about drugs in the lifestyle.
Swinging Downunder asked, “Does drug use at sex positive events concern you?”
Some answers of the answers were as follows:
“It blurs the line of consent.”
“Impairs decision making.”
“Clear minds are required for consensual and safe play.”
“Excess is a turn off. If you can’t connect properly then it’s wasted time.”
“Not being able to remember things in the morning is a concern.”
What I find surprising about all of these is the same can be said about alcohol, but drinking is a staple at most swinging events.
In our discussion with Cate and Darrell, Darrell noted that he had a play situation that he shut down because someone was too drunk. I think most ethical swingers would do the same, which means we’re already making value decisions based on level of intoxication.
So why the blanket statement that drugs cause consent issues but alcohol only at certain levels?
The perception of what high looks like.
Most People Know Drunk
Most people have experience being slightly buzzed on alcohol and being very drunk. We can easily identify it in others. We can sympathetically and empathetically understand the situation. Someone who has never been high has nothing to compare it to, so it’s all a judgement based off of what is known…which is usually media portrayals, which are often terrible! If this is someone’s expectation of what it’s like to be on MDMA, it’s understandable why they would think consent would be an issue.
Even at my highest—when I was specifically testing limits of being too high—I’ve never been close to that gone. I’d be more likely to behave that way drunk then on MDMA. More than likely I’d need to be both to go around petting random people. Or even friends!
I’m much more with it while high than drunk. Erin would say the same about herself. You’d be more likely to tell we were drinking, even if just buzzed, then mildly high. Even psychedelics are easy to navigate at low doses. Microdosing LSD and psilocybin is a new trend that supposedly boosts productivity and cognitive function. I do it sometimes (eventually I’ll get around to telling those stories), and in my experience, yeah, I get a lot more work done on a microdose.
Conversely, I would say psychedelics are the one drug that I’ve tried where taking a large dose would impair me more than being drunk. But then again, I’ve been black out drunk. I’ve never been blackout high. So maybe drunk is worse.
You’ve probably interacted with high people at parties or events without ever knowing. And they would never tell you out of fear of the consequences.
We’d Never Bring It Up
A lot of feedback Swinger Diaries and Swinging Downunder received was along the same lines as what Paige says: “When we see hardcore drugs, it is a turn off to me.” (26:15)
Which means, if Paige and Penn met Erin and myself in a club, and we’re having a good time, really hitting it off, and they have no idea Erin’s on a small dose of MDMA, we certainly wouldn’t mention it because of the knowledge that their fear of the unknown might make them pull back from us without cause. Erin’s fully in control of herself, is able to clearly speak and hold a conversation, and can make decisions about her ability to consent.
“But Shane,” you say “That should be their decision if they don’t want to play with you while you are on drugs.”
Yeah, I suppose, but then should I give the rundown of every drug I’m on? I mean, someone’s blood pressure meds might be a factor during strenuous activity, right? That should be disclosed?
Sure, one might argue that if you can’t participate in a lifestyle event without being on drugs, you shouldn’t be there. But how many swingers wouldn’t be in the lifestyle without antidepressants or be able to have a conversation without some kind of prescribed anti anxiety med?
That’s what a low dose of MDMA is for Erin. It removes her anxiety and let’s her engage on a more normal level. And it works better than other anti anxiety drugs she’s been prescribed. Why is the prescription drug acceptable but the MDMA isn’t?
Because a pharmaceutical company spent millions of dollars lobbying Congress for the patented prescription drug and no one lobbied for MDMA.
The Fear of the Unknown
Let me quote Paige and Penn and jump in between points.
On Potency (26:25)
“The nature of illegal drugs is that they are more potent. They’re just more powerful. They could have effects on you that you don’t predict.”
Illegal drugs like MDMA and LSD are more immediately potent, yes. However, some prescription antianxiety drugs and antidepressants completely change patterns of behavior and potentially personality; they just take time to start working. Sometimes weeks. Sometimes months. And they can kill a person who stops taking them without slowly tapering off. So which drug is actually more potent? Them or MDMA?
But yes, MDMA or a psychedelic could have an effect you don’t predict. Even with my years of MDMA experience, I cannot predict how you would react. But I can predict how I would react. I have a notebook full of data points, and I can tell you pretty accurately how I will react at 100mg, 140mg, or 180mg.
On Easing In (26:32)
“And they’re harder to ease into. With alcohol you can say, ‘Take one shot and let me know how you feel in 20 minutes.’ And then, OK, you want another shot—you can do it a little bit at a time.”
Refer back to Most People Know Drunk. Most of us have had alcohol experience since we were 21 (if not younger), and we’ve been exposed to it all our lives by seeing it consumed around us. Even nondrinkers can guess how many beers, glasses of wine, or shots are appropriate and when it gets to the point of excess.
Erin and I have spent years experimenting with these substances in various environments. Just like you can assume how many shots you need as social lubricant, so too can we assume the same for MDMA or GHB.
It is possible to ease into a drug experience as long as you have the right form. For example, I get MDMA in a crystal, which means I can give Erin 120mg and take 140mg myself. Or, as I did for the Bourbon Street Experiment, pack a bunch of 50mg capsules and just take them throughout the night. Now, if all I have is 140mg capsules and no scale, that’s harder to adjust for someone who should only take 100mg to 120mg. But even pressed pills can be broken in half.
You just have to know exactly what you are carrying. Which requires testing and trying the substance in a secure environment first.
Cocaine is snorted in small doses, and it only lasts like half an hour (which is why we aren’t big fans; that gets expensive, and who wants to keep going off somewhere to snort a weird tasting powder?). GHB is usually in liquid form and can be dosed up slowly. Psychedelics are about the only substance that you can’t easily partition out.
On First Tries (26:42)
“But if you’ve never done it before, and you’re going to take an ecstasy pill, I dunno, is this going to be awesome or am I going to be freaking out? I just don’t know.”
This I totally agree with. Erin and I wouldn’t accept drugs at a lifestyle event from people we don’t know. We’d be hesitant to take it from someone we did know if we knew they weren’t as meticulous about testing and dosing as I am. And even if we completely trusted the drugs, we’d need to decide if the drug experience is what we wanted that night.
I have a longer post about this coming soon, but the short of it is that a lifestyle event or resort is not a great set or setting to experiment with any drug. Too many unknowns and no way to really settle yourself.
Or to quote Paige (26:54), “If I’m at a lifestyle event, that’s the last place I would want to try something that I’ve never done before.”
On Altering the Experience (27:17)
“You are going to alter your personality. You’re going to alter your experience. You’re going to take away from the reason you originally went , we presume, which is to have a lifestyle experience.”
No, you aren’t altering your personality. Not any more so than alcohol alters your personality.
Yes, you will alter your experience. Sticking to MDMA as an example, lights, music, touch, taste, everything is enhanced. Fear, doubt, anxiety are removed. You feel free and unencumbered, but not impaired or out of control. Human interaction and connection becomes easier.
So many podcasts and blogs have talked about the awkward transition from great chat to sexy times. If even one couple was on MDMA, that would be much less of a problem. There would be no embarrassment to say “Let’s get a room.” No fear of rejection. And really, no hurt feelings if rejected! If both couples were on MDMA, that would be the least awkward transition ever.
Just about every aspect of a lifestyle experience is easier and enhanced. Unless you are one of the people who can’t get aroused or have an orgasm. But even then, the sex is AMAZING!
Psychedelics are a whole other ballpark. I think it would be difficult to have a lifestyle experience while tripping, but the hippies seem to manage. Maybe it just takes the right group and the right vibe. A small group of people at the right swinger event, and it might be go time.
Experience and Intent
All this is to say, Erin and I have the experience and history with these drugs to use them in a social setting without impairing ourselves. Moderation with these substances is as necessary as moderation on alcohol, and crossing the line is just as bad. Everyone needs to be responsible for themselves and their own levels of intoxication, but everyone should also make sure their potential play partners are not so intoxicated that consent is murky—whether by alcohol or drugs.
We don’t mix party drugs and clubs, but that’s more about set and setting and the inability to get home. In that post I mention the potential of being on different levels and doing things we might regret, but that’s because of the artificial intimacy MDMA can create. As social swingers, we want to make sure we have a real connection with people before having sex with them. We want to know we can swap with them sober before we swap with them intoxicated.
Not everyone is looking for that. Some people like hooking up with strangers and have no desire to see them again. But maybe they still need some kind of connection to enjoy the swap. For some, MDMA is a perfect way to create that environment of comfort, desire, and pleasure. For others, that might be ketamine, Xanax, or GHB.
As long as the imbiber knows how much they need to be at a right level to engage, consent, and have fun, then what does it matter if the intoxicant is a shot of liquid or a small pill?
These substances can enhance play when used with intent and purpose. It’s up to the people who are using drugs to know how they are affected and to dose accordingly. The same rules that apply to everyone ordering shots at the bar.
Peer Pressure
One thing I was glad to see was that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of pressure or even expectation to partake in drugs. After the interview, I suggested to Cate that maybe another couple of survey questions were warranted.
I was curious if the question from newbies about drugs in the lifestyle was prompted by images of scenes like Swingtown, with house parties full of people getting high and having sex. Such a scene might make people uncomfortable or feel pressured.
Have You Ever Been Offered Drugs at a Swinger/Sex Positive Event Before?
Only 33% of respondents said yes. That’s not bad. I would imagine that number is much higher if you are into the music festival scene, where such things are more prevalent and an expected part of the experience.
Which brings me to another point: Have you ever seen footage of people dancing at those psytrance music festivals or hanging out at Burning Man? Those people juggling and hula hooping and fire dancing? Yeah, most of them are probably on LSD or MDMA while performing. There’s a section in Neurons to Nirvana with a couple festival goers explaining how LSD makes them better jugglers.
When people get stumbling over, slurred speech intoxicated, it’s usually alcohol. Most other substances just make you want to hug people.
Have You Ever Felt Pressured to Do Drugs at a Swinger/Sex Positive Event Before?
Even better, only 16% of respondents said yes. One person commented: “Weed.” I have no idea if the pressure was active (having the marijuana pushed on them) or passive (everyone else in the group was doing it, so they felt like they should). But I’m glad the number is low.
Is Illegal Drug Use Common in the Lifestyle?
Paige and Penn address this at 28:33, and Paige gives it a resounding “No, it’s not common.”
Penn softens it to “This answer depends on the circles you’re in.”
Totally true. There are some couples who always use drugs when at lifestyle events. There are groups that might take drugs together. I have no doubt there are entire house parties that are dedicated Party-and-Play (PnP) events where the intent is to get high together and orgy. (Yeah, I just verbed orgy. You’re welcome.)
Those hosts are probably only inviting known drug takers. The risk (legal, healthwise, and for the vibe of the party) would be too great to have complete drug newbs attend.
Drugs in the Lifestyle: The Take-Aways
What I hope has come across here is that with proper self-knowledge and experience, party drugs like GHB, ketamine, MDMA, or even LSD are no more impactful on a person’s personality, decision-making abilities, or cognitive function than alcohol. We all expect other party goers to control themselves and not get fall-over, vomiting drunk. And many of us have seen it happen, whether at a family wedding, a friend’s BBQ, or a swinger club.
Despite the legal status, illicit substances can have a positive effect on people, making social and sexual interactions easier and more fulfilling.
But it’s up to the substance takers to know their limits and adjust accordingly.
Our general guidelines for drugs in the lifestyle would be
- Don’t take anything for the first time at an event. Do your experimenting at home. Work up to experimenting in new environments.
- Don’t take anything at an event without testing it beforehand. Even better: Do a trial run at home of the exact substance you plan on taking at the dose level you think is appropriate so you know exactly what that dosage feels like. Batch strength can vary.
- Don’t take drugs from people that you can’t trust to do their due diligence. Even if you are an experienced user, if you can’t test it, you don’t know what it is.
- Don’t dismiss getting to know people just because they are recreational drug users. Let’s get rid of that judgy “drug and disease free” statement on profiles. Instead, ask what people’s comfort level is with substances. We drug users are good, interesting people. Drug use doesn’t define us just as being a social drinker doesn’t define people.
And if you made it through this essay, you deserve a medal!