A little while back, Her (yeah, that’s Her name for this blog) of Monogamish Marriage mentioned that she had an…unsettling MDMA experience. It was only described briefly on Twitter with the mention it might make for a blog post later on with a full telling. Needless to say, Erin and I were fascinated from the start.
We knew Her had an overly stimmed experience, but what was the dosage? What was the setting? How had it gone wrong? We also knew the stim eventually calmed, and she was able to enjoy some really connective sex, but under what context?
At last, we got the full story! Erin and I read it independently. My first thought: “Oh, that’s entirely not the advice I’d have given.” Erin’s first comment to me was similar.
We’re going to quote/shamelessly steal from the original blog post and arrogantly add our comments into it like annoying narrators. It’ll be great!
The Story Unfolds
HER: Being non-monogamous is all about living life outside the lines: trying things that might seem risky or ridiculous to other people. And being on vacation at a lifestyle resort only heightens that sense of adventure. What happens on vacation stays on vacation, as they say. So when our good friend Jack asked me if I wanted to try MDMA for the first time, the answer was obvious.
SHANE: This logic makes sense to me, and I approve.
HIM: Obvious to you, maybe, but not to me. Growing up, my mom would tell me to beware of turning my back on my drink at the mall because someone could slip something into it and get me hooked on drugs for life. You know, the kind of parental admonition the average kid just laughs off? Not me. I totally bought it.
SHANE: I never got that kind of advice, but growing up in the time of D.A.R.E., I was fed and completely believed most of the drug propaganda that was thrown out there. And almost all of it is complete and utter B.S. that was never backed with any science. It’s all fear-mongering and control by the government and big pharma/alcohol lobbies.
ERIN: I got that advice! My mom used to say stuff like that to me, although to be fair the advice to guard my drink might have been more about the fear of date-rape drugs. But when we were kids, we also had that ridiculous fear of strangers tampering with Halloween candy in order to get kids hooked on drugs. I am not sure where that one came from, but it was a very real and prevalent fear when we were growing up. It lumped all “drugs” into the same terrifying category, and cemented the idea that all drugs are harmful and you can get addicted and ruin your life if you have even a little bit of any illegal substance. I reacted similarly to Him with regards to those dire warnings about drugs. So I completely understand how difficult it is to get past the “drugs are scary and bad” mentality. My advice on that, if you are at all interested in experimenting, is to do your research. Find out what these drugs actually do, what the risks and side effects are, etc. That’s what we did, and we learned to evaluate each substance individually instead of just under the category of an illegal drug.
HIM: At an age when everyone else was sampling any reality-enhancing substance they could get their hands on….
SHANE: Fortunately, none of my friends were doing this, or I might have gotten into these substances too early. I’m glad I didn’t try MDMA or psychedelics until my 30s when I could handle it responsibly (though I do regret not getting into the music festival scene when I was younger). I think of these substances as tools. They might provide fun experiences, but they are still tools able to be used for more than just hedonistic pleasure. For me.
ERIN: I am also glad that I was older by the time these things were introduced into my life. I made informed and well-researched decisions about what things I wanted to try, and as a result I feel in control.
HIM: I have struggled with existential anxiety in the past, so flirting with any flavour of mental chaos feels irresponsible.
SHANE: Low doses of MDMA can feel like they increase mental control just like amphetamines can ease ADHD. Erin finds MDMA lets her put away her social anxiety and interact with people on a normal level. It eases the chatter and self-editing in her mind and lets her be in the present moment.
One of my friends, who would describe himself as a particularly anxious person and as someone who can’t stand to feel out of control, told me how he spent the majority of a roll with his wife just staring at a single moving light from the disco light projector they had up, completely just calm and collected and fully enjoying the peace of the moment.
At higher doses, that jittery stimmed feeling can ruin that calm. But we try not to take that much.
ERIN: Oh, Him, I think that you and I are a lot alike! I completely relate to the feeling of not wanting to mess with brain chemistry. I am prone to anxiety (existential and otherwise), so I do sometimes get nervous about drugs for the same reason. I only had to take MDMA once for it to be moved out of this category though! Psychedelics such as LSD or psilocybin are a different story, but it would be those sorts of drugs that I would recommend caution with if you aren’t in a great headspace. Molly makes you feel good, pure and simple. Everything is framed in a positive light. In my experience, it calms anxiety of all sorts. The disclaimer here is of course making sure you are in the right set and setting to have the best experience and practice proper after-care.
…
HER: Jack said that, while he had taken 200mg 48 hours earlier,
SHANE: Whoah! Is Jack a particularly big or drug-resistant guy? 200 is one hell of a start dose! I am both a big and drug-resistant guy, and I rarely start with 200.
Which leads me to another question: Did Jack do Molly a second time with you? I don’t have the Molly comedown/hangover/suicide Tuesday effect much anymore, but if I’m starting with 200, I know I’m going to have some down days. Doing a second time in the same week…ouch!
HER: …he recommended 120mg for me.
SHANE: Erowid is my go-to site for dosing information. I’ve read that you can calculate your start dose as 1.5mg per kg body weight, with 120mg being the max anyone should start with even for people above 80 kilos. Which is [quick math of multiple by 80 by 2.2] 176 pounds.
I’m absolutely not about to ask your weight.
But are you particularly susceptible to uppers like caffeine?
HER: His wife suggested starting with 60mg, waiting a couple hours, and then deciding whether to take the other 60mg once I started rolling. That would give me the option of stepping off the roller coaster earlier if things got unpleasant.
SHANE: 60mg is on the low side for starter doses. I’ve had people take that much and just not feel anything except maybe a little more awake. And one friend felt frustrated that she didn’t experience the real effects. She actually was getting mad at the rest of us who were having a good time!
I recommend 80–90mg for the first time as a way of establishing tolerance—but of course that is assuming you have it in a powder form you can measure out precisely (which I usually do) and not pre-pressed tablets that are supposedly a certain amount. I’ve been burned by those before.
Given the options, I might have recommended splitting the dose. In hindsight, I really would have recommended splitting the dose! 60mg to start and 60mg two hours later has nowhere near the same feel as 120mg at once. Some people are also more sensitive to the Molly come-up. Once they are in the experience, the jittery, stimmed feeling doesn’t register. But in the first hour or so, it’s particularly uncomfortable.
Though, be careful about waiting too long before redose. We also find that taking a second dose much more than two hours later doesn’t increase the depth of the roll so much as it just extends the roll. Our come-ups take about 45 minutes to an hour, and then we decide about an hour after that if we want to add more.
If we try to take more after four hours, it seems to do very little to extend or deepen the experience.
ERIN: Yeah, I would normally say that 60mg wouldn’t be enough to feel anything, but given your reaction to the come-up that might be a good place to start if you decide that there will be a next time. I occasionally take low doses of Molly for large social events (like a wedding where I don’t know many people). For me, this is around 90mg. That dose basically just makes me feel like I am in a good mood and having a really good day, and it lessens my social anxiety significantly. I don’t feel altered in any significant way so I am not worried about other people noticing that I am high. It allows me to relax and talk to people without so much of the shyness that would normally hold me back. From what I have seen of your (extremely well done and very hot!) photos, you look pretty petite. For you, 60mg might be the threshold dose where you would experience more of the relaxed, happy feelings, and less of the hyper-stimulation.
HER: But I felt like I wanted to embrace this experience in its entirety, [SHANE: That’s how I usually do it, too, so all that stuff I just said about, “Go light and slowly increase dosage across the night!” is advice I give, not advice I would follow.] so I popped the whole 120mg capsule [SHANE: This was powder in a capsule? Who weighed it out? Was it tested? I usually do that all myself to ensure proper dosage.] and headed off to the bar to join our friends for fetish night.
About an hour after taking it, I started to feel a little tipsy, as if I had a little too much wine. [SHANE: I don’t think I would ever call Molly tipsy like alcohol, but on high doses, my vision and balance get distorted.] [Erin: I can understand the tipsy reference. For me it is kind of a loosening feeling, like I can feel myself relaxing.] We were all standing around watching the Fetish Night show, with me in my full lingerie, stockings, and heels getup, when I realized wearing heels was not a good idea. [SHANE: Restrictive, uncomfortable clothing is the worst on Molly!] [Erin: Oh yeah, one of the most distinct feelings that I experience any time I do Molly is feeling restricted by clothing. If I wear anything at all it needs to be loose and soft. Anything restrictive will feel stifling]. So I went back to the room to change into flats. I got back just in time to join the group heading to the disco. By that time it was hitting me hard, in a frightening way. I was dizzy and nauseous. A friend with some molly experience of her own suggested dancing would be a good way to help me feel grounded and handle the discomfort.
SHANE: I understand the idea behind this advice: You have too much energy, so get some out. However, this is the exact opposite of what I would have recommended. I don’t typically get over-stimmed, but Erin has. It happened during our second MDMA experience (with our friends K and B). K had Erin lie on her back, breathe deep, and the rest of us just put our hands on her gently to give her a base of contact. B even did some reiki massage, which helped.
The stim effect is like a sudden shock of panic. I recommend trying to release it and seek calm. Find someplace cool and quiet where you can sit or lie down and just breathe to get your heart rate back under control. The nausea should relax with your heart.
Discussions around psychedelics often address set and setting. Let me tell you: Set and setting matter with all drugs, including alcohol. And just in general, sober life. I am more likely to speed when driving if I’m blasting heavy metal than if I’m listening to chillwave or singing along to Africa by Toto. Your environment matters.
I feel like set and setting aren’t thought about enough in life.
Erin: It really can’t be said enough. Set and setting are so important. I can see how being separated from the group and then re-entering a party scene just as you are coming up could have set the tone for a bit of a scary experience. If you had been in a warm, comfortable room with just Mr. Monogamish and were able to come up while he held you or otherwise calmed you with his presence, things might have felt very different.
HIM: I thought you rallied a bit when you started to move, but that didn’t last too long. You are normally a fantastic dancer who exudes an undeniable sensuous energy, so it was really obvious to me when you began to wilt. It was like a flame had been blown out inside of you. Your smile faded, you seemed to lose eye contact and your sense of rhythm fell apart. I held you close, and you put your face into my shoulder in a way that suggested you needed protection. I wasn’t scared, but I was paying very careful attention to your signals. [SHANE: Good on you, sir! You’ve earned Sherpa experience points!]
HER: Well, I was scared. Dancing was fun for about two minutes, then I started to feel dangerously out of control. I couldn’t speak or see clearly, it was hard to breathe, and I had a prickly heat under my skin that felt like fire. I needed water, so we went to sit at the bar. Our friends came with us and were very kind about asking what they could do. Beyond water, I couldn’t even access what I needed. I needed it to stop was the only thing I could think, but I couldn’t find the words. It was bad.
SHANE: Erin and I only tried partying on Molly once. We use it as a tool for togetherness time in the comfort of our home where we can relax. We listen to chill music, talk, massage each other, and usually have sex. I think having an up-tempo first try overloaded you.
ERIN: What you are describing sounds like over-stimulation. Molly does make you feel things in an intense way, and there was just so much going on physiologically to your body, but also a lot going on outside of yourself in your environment. It sounds like it all came together at once in a big, scary way.
HIM: I took your collar off, because you said something about not breathing. [SHANE: You’ve earned more Sherpa experience points!] I then suggested we go back to the room and lie down. [SHANE: You’ve just leveled up to Sherpa level 2!] You didn’t argue. In the room, you went through all of your bedtime routines. [Erin: Good job taking care of her! Definitely no collars next time!]
HER: I found that kind of funny in the moment. I really thought I might be having a seriously bad reaction to this drug, but it was still important to brush my teeth and put my clothes away.
HIM: I think that kind of routine was probably stabilizing for you. We turned out the lights and tried to go to sleep.
HER: I hoped I could just sleep it off, but my mind was racing. [SHANE: Sleep? How long was this into your roll? Cause we have trouble sleeping even an hour or so after coming out of the Molly experience. We usually take something to help us.]
…
What I think I now understand is that my awareness of my body was so hyper-sensitive that I was simply experiencing regular processes in foreign and frightening ways. I wasn’t really struggling to breathe, I was just aware of the process of breathing — something that’s normally unconscious — in a way that made it feel strange. My skin wasn’t actually on fire when I was dancing, I was just getting hot but freakishly aware of it. [SHANE: Great observations.] But in the moment, I thought I was going to die. So, to fight my rising panic, I asked you to talk to me. [SHANE: Really good notion. Erin has done the same. It’s a typical way to cope.]
…
HER: I think it was around then that things actually started to shift for the better. I felt so much tenderness for you as you talked about your insecurity. [SHANE: That is the quintessential Molly experience: joy, tenderness, and compassion.] And, because I was still having trouble with words, I had to simply listen. [SHANE: On high doses, we get really spacey and will just forget a thought mid-sentence. It’s weird because this isn’t an exaggeration of something we experience at lower or mid-range doses, like how the more drunk you are the harder it is to walk. It’s just that at some point, BOOM! Holding onto thoughts becomes difficult.]
…
I was still “rolling”, which is the term for the ups and downs the drug tends to give you. Some people experience the ups as euphoric. For me, they meant a return to the hot, heart-pounding panic. [SHANE: Many of your reactions definitely fall into what I would call a heavy dose.] During one of these ups, I asked you to lie on top of me. I wanted to feel your weight and the coolness of your skin. [SHANE: I love the coolness of Erin’s skin on mine, but she can feel a bit claustrophobic if I’m on top of her.] It was strangely comforting, like a weighted blanket. I could feel your breath and your heartbeat, and it helped me to focus on calming my own. [Erin: That was a really good instinct. Although I can sometimes feel claustrophobic with Shane on top of me, it does feel very calming to have him firmly press down on my chest with his hands. I have also found it comforting to lie on my stomach. There is something about pressure on my chest area that helps with the heart-racy feeling.]
HIM: Early in our relationship, we would have moments like this when I would hold you tight in bed and tremble with the intensity of my love for you. [SHANE: I feel like that is a great description of how Molly feels. Kudos to you for getting that sober.] It wasn’t primarily about sex, but sex was the channel for an overwhelming current of love. I actually got hard from being so in love. I had that kind of feeling.
HER: I know you used to talk about that, and I thought it was cute, but I couldn’t really relate. Sex and love are different parts of my brain. But a strange thing started happening. Every time you squeezed me or kissed me, the wave of love would activate my clit. It was like every time my heart swelled with love for you, it physically translated to tingling sexual feelings. I stroked your back and was strangely aware of all your muscles under the skin. I kept commenting on how strong you were. [SHANE: Erin does the same to me. She really gets into massaging my back and shoulders. And being in a similar headspace, I very much love the attention!] Kissing you was the softest, most wonderful sensation. And, most overwhelmingly of all, I could not get enough of your scent. You smell sooo good. It was like I became consciously aware of your pheromones. So, this was it, that thing that everyone talks about! [SHANE: YUP!] That amazing space where every touch, every smell, sets off fireworks in your senses. [Erin: I am so glad that you got to experience some of the good things! If you try again, you will have this foundation of knowledge and hopefully the come-up wouldn’t be so scary.]
HIM: Finally, an hour and a half into the high [SHANE: Was this (a) an hour and half after taking the pill or (b) hour and a half after you felt it set in and were feeling tipsy? If (a), I think you might have an extreme reaction to the come-up and you should definitely spread out your doses if you ever try again. If (b), it sounds like you really just needed a calm, down-tempo environment to relax into the experience.], it seemed like you had passed from the crisis phase and I relaxed. I let you out of my passionate grip and considered the possibilities. I was really turned on and you were in some fabulous place of heightened sensitivity. What could we do with that?
[Shane: Read their blog if you want the juicy bits. And you do.] …
HER: I didn’t even know our nerves were capable of that kind of sensitivity. I was finally, belatedly, feeling the total MDMA experience. [SHANE: And that’s sex on Molly!]
HIM: Unfortunately, the “total MDMA experience” also includes the inability to come. While I had a massive orgasm from all that build up, you began to sense that it wasn’t going to happen for you that night. [SHANE: And that is also a typical issue with sex on Molly. Some people can’t get aroused (wet or hard) at all and don’t even feel sexual, just sensual. I had one friend tell me he doesn’t understand why I want to fuck on Molly, and even Erin has rolls where she’d rather just cuddle and talk than have sex. Neither of us can finish either. It feels wonderful, but it’s just not building toward anything.]
HER: I had been warned that you can’t expect all those other-worldly feelings to lead to orgasm. But that was fine with me. I had experienced some things I hadn’t imagined were even possible. [SHANE: Which is why we love it. It’s an incredible tool for increasing togetherness and experiencing love and joy with each other.] … Now that I have seen what my senses are capable of, I’m actively trying to take that new capacity for pleasure and access it without the drug in my system. [SHANE: That is a thing that is possible. I actually learned what the serotonin release feels like and have noticed it in myself at certain times. There are ways back to that mindset.]
…
HIM: So, the big question is would you try it again?
HER: Interestingly, when I shared a little bit about my experience on Twitter, I was flooded with advice from people about nutrition, dosage, pacing, setting, etc. It seemed like a lot of people felt invested in me having a better experience of MDMA, which they all firmly believe is out there. So while I have a list of things I could do differently, I’m going to take a while to decide if there will be a next time. [SHANE: If you ever want more info, contact us!] [Erin: When I read your Twitter post, I immediately wanted to offer all kinds of advice! I think you can have a much better experience by tweaking your method. I have to admit, I do feel invested in people having a good Molly experience. It has been such an amazing thing for Shane and I, that we want everyone to be able to have that incredible feeling of love and peace and connection to their partner.]
Unanswered Questions
There were still details I didn’t get from the story that I would ask about to offer more refined advice.
How long had it been since you’d eaten before you took it? If it had been a few hours, it might help you to have a small snack closer to go time to slow down the uptake and even out your come-up.
Were you drinking alcohol at all during this experience? I don’t suggest having much, but we often sip sweet whites like prosecco during. Alcohol is a downer, so it can lower that stimmed feeling. But not too much! The cross inhibition-lowering effects could have you doing things you normally wouldn’t. Of course, you were at a lifestyle resort, not a local bar, so you probably wouldn’t have scandalized anyone.
Did you take it alone? We find that it can be a little disruptive to not be on the same level as people. I find if I’m rolling with people who aren’t, I kind of mute my roll so that I don’t seem to be acting too loving or weird. I’m sure in a party setting like you were in, I’d just let myself go more, but that’s untested. Still, being the only person in the experience could have led to your anxiety increasing: worrying about who might notice, feeling a bit isolated, things like that. Weed and psychedelics can cause that bit of paranoia; because it’s an upper, so can MDMA.
The Last Bit of Advice: Aftercare
One last thing to consider in order to have the best possible experience is after care. There are two distinct “phases” after the roll is over:
- The Come-Down
- The Hangover
The Come-Down
Basically, you took a chemical that boosted your happiness to a 10, and then as the chemical wears off, you feel your happiness slide back down to a 7.
We don’t usually get this. When the Molly wears off, we might start feeling tired or hungry again. Mostly the high just gently fades away and we’re left with a warm, loving glow from a lovely evening. And then we take some Xanax and go to sleep.
Some people chase the Molly with another substance, like 2C-B or Ketamine or even alcohol, so that they can cover up the come-down with something else. Generally, though, the severity of the come-down is going to be proportional to the amount of MDMA taken.
The Hangover
We call it the Molly Hangover, but it’s often referred to as Suicide Tuesday. This is supposedly the result of the serotonin depletion catching up with you, and it normally takes a day or two before it hits.
We used to get this after most rolls, but now it only hits if we go particularly hard or if we don’t leave enough time between rolls. We try to wait at least four weeks between MDMA experience, but that’s not always the case. And if we’ve rolled for a couple months in a row, we then take a month or two off, just to let ourselves recover all the more.
I describe the hangover as being glum, low energy, and lacking motivation. Similar to that feeling I get when I read the last book of a really good series, and I’m a little sad that my adventure with those characters is over.
To help avoid the hangover, we take a dietary supplement called 5-HTP. You can find it in health stores or on Amazon. It’s a legit thing people take for health reasons. There are other raver supplements out there full of even more things. We’ve yet to try them. We eat fairly healthy, so I don’t think most of the extra supplements are necessary, but if we were out at a club, partying hard, then some of the other ingredients might be worthwhile.
The most important thing is going to be sleep. Molly is a massive stimulant, and even if you are out of the high, it can disrupt your normal sleep cycle. Get plenty of rest in the days following.
But Those Might not Even Be a Thing
New research shows the negative after-effects aren’t seen in clinical trials, so they are more likely a result of over-exertion, dehydration, and lack of sleep.
Also interesting to note the doctor’s dosing recommendation:
T=0: 125mg
T+2 hours: 60mg
T+4 hours: 30mg
T+6 hours: 15mg
T+8 hours: get cab home
Gives optimal positive mood effects & also safer; with reduced temp & BP risks.
People who understand MDMA know:
a) Never start >125mg
b) Halve dose every 2 hours
— Dr Ben Sessa MD (@DrSessa)
I disagree with never starting above 125mg. I know my tolerance, and I can take 120-130mg and not get fully immersed in the experience. But I agree with the idea as a basic guide: Start at the lowest dose you can to get into the full experience, half the dose every two hours.
Only roll heavy if you are doing so with intention and purpose.
Wrapping It Up
And that’s all I’ve got. I’m not sure if any of this helps anyone, but there you have some of our experience/knowledge of MDMA. Remember: We’re not experts, just enthusiasts! Test your substances, be careful about combos, pace yourself, and do your trial run in a comfortable, controlled environment. Set and setting are paramount!
