We were recently invited on the Average Swingers podcast to chat with J and Angie (episode 139 if you care to listen). During that chat, J had three questions to ask (that he had received from listeners/friends) to get the party started. The first was about what to do when vanilla friends start to get too flirty after finding out you’re in the lifestyle (0:48). The second was about transitioning to sexy times (13:32). The third was about why swingers don’t use condoms or dental dams for oral sex but they do for other types of sex (38:20). It’s that second question I’m going to dive into a little more. The group ended up going on a tangent about pushing people into situations, and I feel that’s a topic that could use some examination.
But first, let me define “the group,” because we weren’t the only guests that night. Tiff and Rachel of the Sapphic Swingers podcast were on in the beginning but disappeared somewhere along the way. They weren’t a part of this conversation. Cate of the Wanderlust Swingers Podcast and Entertainment Collective was staying with J and Angie at the time, which was serendipitous timing. She helped steer this tangent. Though she dropped off soon after to have a staring contest with a cat. And Angie ends up getting decently hammered through the whole thing….
Three women just abandoned the conversation and one had to get sloshed to be able to keep chatting with us….
I’m starting to think we’re not as interesting as I think we are.
Or maybe I’m not as interesting as I think I am….
No time for self-reflection. Let’s get on with me rambling about words!
Transitions and Card Games
“How does it go from hanging out to getting busy?” was the question J relayed from his friends. Or listeners. I’m confused about from whom these questions came. I guess his friends could listen to the podcast….
We replied that our best transitions have always come from some kind of game. An external prompt that gives people permission to start getting naughty. Whether that’s a drinking game, a stripping game, or a card game like the Game of Lifestyle, these help break the tension and give an excuse to start getting frisky. It might be awkward for two people to just start making out, but if the cards or dice roll give that instruction, it feels safer.
Not everyone has the gall to say “Hey, we’re interested in having sex with you. If you feel the same, just let us know,” the way J does. And props to him for having that gumption.
J notes that the card games “progress you, they make you go farther. They push you a little bit.” (21:16) He then follows with “both these girls [Angie and Cate] cannot stand it if anyone is feeling pushed.”
Angie follows with “Pressured, not pushed. Pressured.” Which I think is a spot-on distinction.
J continues with, “They don’t like if you’re pushing somebody, but every now and then, someone has to push!”
The conversation continues and gets a little muddled. So I’m revisiting to clarify these points.
Or to quote Cate, “So what we’re saying is, Shane really wants to home in on the terminology.” (27:22)
Why, yes. Yes I do. It’s like you’ve met me.
The Assist
Cate uses the following scenario as an example (23:50): Erin and I are at a club, and Erin sees a couple she’s interested in but is too shy to approach them or take the next step, whatever that is. (Cate knows us really well at this point!) So I, knowing my partner, assess the situation, realize what she wants, and instigate the next step on her behalf. (OK, so maybe not that well….)
Cate calls that a push. Angie then identifies that as an assist not a push. (26:44)
Once again, I think Angie is spot on. At this point in the podcast, she and I are in sync. Later on during the gangbang part, not so much.
In Cate’s example, as Erin’s wingperson, I can help Erin achieve a goal that she feels she cannot reach on her own. But it is a goal that she wants. And that she knows that she wants. The goal itself is within her comfort zone even if the pathway to get to the goal is not.
In this case, I’m not pushing Erin. If anything, I’m carrying her for a time. (I couldn’t decide if I should quote The Lord of the Rings or Firefly.)
Pushing Good. Pushing Real Good!
So then what is pushing? I think pushing occurs if I attempt to maneuver Erin toward something that is outside her comfort zone.
Not that this is inherently a Bad Thing. J and K of That Couple Next Door have spoken a few times about how J pushes K’s boundaries, and she’s thankful for it. He is able to assess when, how, and how much to push her so that she experiences new things in a positive way.
That’s awesome!
However, pushing can be negative. It depends on who is pushing and how aggressively. I can get away with pushing Erin outside her comfort zone in ways other people cannot because she trusts that I have her best interests at heart, will support her through any discomfort, and will relent if she resists the push.
An example: If Erin and I were discussing finding a single guy for a threesome and I suggest we find two guys to join us instead of just one, that’s a push. I know it’s something she fantasizes about but hasn’t tried yet. I’m nudging that ball to see if I can get it rolling.
That’s a pretty safe push because it’s just a conversation and easy to back-burner the idea. If I start needling her about, either bringing it up too often or getting aggressive with how I’m bringing it up, that becomes negative pushing.
Were I find the guys and set up the event—with her permission—that would be an assist.
If I threaten her in some way, try to manipulate her, or surprise her with a bunch of guys without knowing she wants that, then it becomes pressure.
If No One Is Pushing, the Cart Goes Nowhere
Wow, that sounds almost profound!
What I mean is that most people aren’t in lockstep with their partners about everything. It’s on one person to bring up the idea of doing something new like going to a lifestyle club for the first time or experimenting with handcuffs and floggers or trying MDMA. If no one is pushing for new experiences, then new experiences are never had.
Erin and I easily fall into this rut because we’re both people pleasers and have too much concern about not wanting to feel like we’re pressuring the other. Which means if one of us in the mood for sex but we think the other person might not be, we’re more likely to passively let it pass than put it out there and feel like we’re imposing our wants on the other. Even when the reality is that other of us would have loved to have the offer made.
This doesn’t just apply to sex, either. We’re complete enablers (or disenablers depending on the situation) about so many things.
We’re getting better, to be fair. But I feel like we could use a bit more pusher energy in our lives. Particularly now that we’re both vaccinated and the world is opening up.
Under Pressure
Pressure would be when someone is feeling dragged out of their comfort zone by circumstances not within their control. I’m going to say that pressure is always a negative. I feel comfortable with that statement in this setting.
Pressure can be a little more insidious though because there is direct pressure and indirect pressure. Both are negative, but one is more internal to the individual. That can make it harder to see and deconstruct. Being able to identify it and talk it over with your partners is an important element to communicating well in the lifestyle.
Direct Pressure
Remember back in school when everyone was going on about the dangers of peer pressure?
In the stupid morality videos they force fed us in Catholic school, it was usually some kid waving a cigarette in some other kid’s face and taunting him, “Come on! Try it! Don’t you want to be…cool?” One puff later and the kid’s an addicted, leather jacket wearing, chain smoking thug on his way towards using cocaine.
That’s direct pressure. Kid A is directly applying pressure to Kid B to get him to do something he’s not sure he wants to do or that he knows he really doesn’t want to do.
That would be the same thing as me telling Erin if she loved me she would be willing to be gangbanged (not sexfested!). I am applying direct pressure on her to force her to do something she’s uncomfortable doing.
Indirect Pressure
What those stupid morality videos didn’t cover when they tried to teach us about not smoking is indirect pressure. That would be when you hang out with a large bunch of your friends outside of school for the first time and 85% of them are smoking. If a friend offers you a cigarette, they aren’t directly pressuring you into smoking. Most likely they don’t care one way or the other if you try it. It’s not the offer that’s the pressure, it’s the environment of knowing you are in the minority. The fear that you are an outsider.
Some people feel pressure to drink at lifestyle clubs or even on dates just because it seems the norm. If everyone else is drinking, there is a fear of being singled out as odd if you remain sober.
Or what sometimes happens to Erin: We hang out with lifestyle friends, and everyone else gets in the mood for a transition faster than she does. When things start to get physical, Erin might not be ready the way everyone else is. But she feels pressured to go with it because she feels like she’s somehow in the wrong for not on everyone else’s level. As a people pleaser, she doesn’t want to be the anchor that holds everyone back from having a good time. (How am I doing describing this, sweetie?)
Erin Pushes In
You did a great job describing it!
If I am not feeling quite ready to jump into play but generally having a good time, I feel internal pressure to just go with the flow and catch up to everyone else. I would feel really uncomfortable calling attention to my being not quite there, as if I am saying everyone needs to stop and take care of me.
If I am actively not into it, that is still difficult for me, but I have gotten to the point now where I can just call things off or switch back to being just with Shane. But that internal pressure is rough. It’s very hard for me to tell if it’s a situation where I should push myself.
Also, it’s only now that I realize that this is one of the other reasons (in addition to what Shane already described) why I like games to assist with transition. They move things along but slowly at first. It keeps the whole group interacting and laughing, having a good time. It eases me into play at a good pace because each act is relatively short.
And eventually the game is abandoned entirely when everyone just gets into the play.
Back to Transition Games
For the most part, we see transition games as tools that provide an assist. Erin said on the podcast that they are really just an excuse for people to act on things they want to do anyway.
However, that’s not absolute. Here are a couple things to consider before starting any lifestyle game.
Define the Rules Before Agreeing to Play
Because agreeing to play the game is an expression of consent for the actions the game provokes, all players need to understand what they are getting into before they agree to play. It would be a gross break of trust to bust out the Hot ‘n Heavy cards of the Game of Lifestyle if players were unaware that it directed sexual interaction. Selling it as the Icebreaker deck but instead using the explicit direction cards would be a form of pressure.
But if we make sure everyone understands what’s in the Hot N’ Heavy deck and they still agree to play, then we’ve all just given each other a nod (which is as good as a wink to blind bat) about where we all want the night to go. And the card game will assist us toward that goal.
Consent Can Be Revoked at Any Time for Any Reason
No one is beholden to the rules of the game.
If Erin gets a card that says to go down on the other guy, that card is either an assist (because she wanted to do that and under the guise of following directions it’s easier for her muster the courage to ask) or it’s pushing her (because she wasn’t quite there yet, and she needs to decide if she wants to act on the instructions to propel the transition forward).
However she should flat out decline the card if the instructions feel like pressure, and the game simply moves on.
If she feels too nervous to decline the card, that’s indirect pressure from worrying about disappointing the group or feeling like because she agreed to play, she has to do it. This requires that someone knows themselves well enough to understand that they wouldn’t feel comfortable saying no in that situation and that they would likely just “take one for the team” to keep the evening going instead. Such games should be avoided if that’s the case.
If Erin declines but other players start pressuring her to do it anyway, well, that tells us all we need to know about those people. That’s our cue to just end the evening there. Obviously consent isn’t high on their priority.
Laying Your Cards on the Table
Pushing and pressure are a hair’s breadth apart, and the difference between the two is subjective. Know your audience and err on the side using less aggressive measures.
As noted, J is comfortable saying when he and Angie are interested in getting physical. That’s great if you can do that. Not everyone is so bold.
J saying “we’re down for things progressing if and when you are” could be seen as an assist (if the others were of a similar mind and just hoping for a way of transitioning), as pushing (if they weren’t thinking it but he just injected it into their minds to get the ball rolling), or as pressure (if they feel they need to respond immediately and that saying the wrong thing might lead to hurt feelings). It depends on who says it and who receives it. J has a jovial manner about him. I feel like he can deliver that so that it wouldn’t feel like pressure to most people.
It is worth noting that it would be more aggressive if that same sentiment were rephrased to something like “Are you interested in taking this to the bedroom?”
The first one is open ended and gives the other people a chance to mull it over, maybe discuss it in private, and give an answer in their own time, whether that’s five minutes or an hour or even a week or two later.
The direct question puts pressure on the moment. The decision needs to be made shortly (though asking for a side huddle is always appropriate), and it feels definitive: Yes means playtime and no means the evening is over. That might not be the intent of the question, but it can come across that way.
Pushing It Closed
I’m not sure we ever came to consensus during the podcast about pushing versus pressure. I hope this clarifies Erin and my point. I guess I should toss this over to Angie, Cate, and J to see if they agree with my analysis of the terminology.
No pressure, ladies and gentleman.