It has been oftimes said that confidence is sexy. I’m about to write a post showing me at my least confident. I hope that the emotional vulnerability I’m about to display makes up for the lack of confidence. I hear that’s a thing you ladies like. But beyond that, I take comfort in the fact that I’ll probably never meet you anyway, so my relative sexiness doesn’t actually come into play. Besides, I feel like men’s body issues and the ambiguity of male sexiness is a topic that isn’t discussed much (he said before realizing Swinging Downunder just did a podcast about it). At least, the few times it’s been brought up in various groups or forums or podcasts, I’ve never gotten a satisfying answer.
A Little Bit About Me
I’m 39 years old; 5’ 10”. These days, my weight fluctuates between 205 and 215. In the past couple weeks, I squatted over 430 pounds, benched over 330, did 100 pull-ups in one 45-minute workout (mixed in with other things, not all in a row…yet), and ran 10 miles (trail run) at around a 12 minute mile. I hit the gym five to six times a week on average. I usually get in one run a week, but I’m trying for more now that it’s fall. And I take a martial arts class a couple times a week. I do Intermittent Fasting. I usually stick to the Lean Gains 16/8, but once or twice a week I do Eat-Stop-Eat style fasting for 24 hours. Every few months I do a prolonged fast of 48 to 72 hours. Yes, that would be 48 to 72 hours consuming only water or black coffee—no calories.
I don’t mention this to brag. I want to give a very honest snapshot of my health and fitness levels. It’s a hobby to me. I enjoy it. I’m not the pinnacle of physical fitness as you can see from the picture of me in this blog. I don’t have washboard abs; my “fighting weight” would be closer to 185. I certainly won’t be winning any bodybuilding contests, nor do I try. I don’t have that goal.
Despite some prior issues with body dysmorphia (Hello, ladies! Finding all this sexy yet?), which I credit psychedelics and the lifestyle (to a lesser degree) with helping me overcome, I think I look pretty good. I’ve not yet achieved my final form (nerd reference!), but I’ve had a few women compliment my arms during sex. Great feeling, that.
So What’s the Point?
Last week, Erin and I were at The Private Affair, one of the lifestyle clubs in our area. We were talking with another couple with whom we are friends, and the male half had the top few buttons of his shirt undone, to which I jokingly said, “Dude, your shirt’s coming undone.”
He proudly flares open his shirt a bit and says something to the effect of, “Hell yeah! You should try it!”
Prompting me to say, with all of my scathing, biting sarcasm (for which I am known), “Yeah, ‘cause who wants to see that?”
I can’t recall if it was Erin or the female half of the other couple (maybe both) who said something akin to, “I would.”
Once more nudging onward my self-deprecating humor and sarcasm, I replied, “‘Cause I have such luxurious chest hair, and we know how much women love that.” (Hint: I don’t. I’m not a particularly hairy fellow.)
Probably needless to say, my shirt stayed buttoned.
This Conversation Stuck in My Craw
Once the thought was in my head, I became more aware of how other men in the club behaved throughout the night.
One guy was walking around in a thong and nothing else. Cause there’s always That Guy at the club, right? Cool for That Guy, but I always wonder if there are women who want to see that. There must be, but all I know is it’s not Erin’s thing. But that’s not the point. If That Guy wants to walk around in just a thong, he’s in the right place for it, and more power to you!
A few guys were shirtless. Some just had their shirts unbuttoned and were hanging open.
At no point did I judge I these guys for their displays. I’m not casting shade on how these men looked with their shirts open or off.
I just couldn’t understand why they were doing it because in my mind, what’s the point? Afterall, my shirt fit well enough that it wasn’t uncomfortable for me to keep it buttoned. And I don’t believe that there is an aesthetic advantage to unbuttoning it.
I hope that, if asked why, all of them would say that they felt sexy or they knew that doing so was appealing to someone else. That or “Dude, I was just in a room with five girls. I didn’t get around putting the shirt back on yet.”
A Week of Pondering Later….
Erin and I chatted about this as a blog topic, and I managed to sum up my line of thinking as follows:
90% of straight men want to see 90% of women in their underwear or less.
10% of straight women want to see 5% of men in their underwear or less.
If a guy isn’t in that 5% (thinking Ryan Reynolds, Chris Hemsworth, Taye Diggs, etc.; basically, showing some visible abs), taking the shirt off doesn’t matter. Not saying that the taking off of the shirt is a negative, just that it’s not a positive. Women don’t have the same desire to see men naked.
Bold generalization there, Shane. Care to show your work?
Of course! Though the actual numbers I used cannot be verified scientifically.
Do I need to prove the bit about most straight men wanting to see most women naked? No? We’re all OK just going with that? Cool. Moving on.
Breaking Down the Ambiguity of Male Sexiness
What Is the Male Equivalent of Lingerie?
I’ve seen this question a few times in lifestyle groups. The answers vary. I was shocked at how many women said button-down shirt with rolled sleeves. That’s my typical go to, so, you know, go me.
I shall list the top answers from a recent discussion in no particular order:
- Nice button-down shirt with rolled up sleeves
- Suit
- Uniform
- Tool belt
- Cowboy hat/cowboy boots
- Kilt
- Boxer briefs (also what I typically wear, so again, go me)
No one said au natural or shirtless, and even when boxer briefs were mentioned, it was as part of a complete package. Women didn’t suggest they wanted to see men naked or partially naked.
Sex Club Themes
Most of the club themes we see are geared toward the ladies and giving them a direction for their lingerie choices.
As an example, here are the upcoming Pleasure Garden Club themes:
- Puss in Pink
- Ladies in Men’s Shirt and Stockings Party
- Pleasurecation (their BDSM night; that’s a whole other post!)
- Sheer Pleasure…See Thru Party!!!
- Foreplay & Fishnets
- Sex in the City…Stockings and Stilettos Party!!
Saints & Sinners’s events are a little more esoteric. Libra Zodiac Party and Oktoberfest? I guess sexy lederhosen are a thing…. The Sexy Superheroes is more in line with a sex party theme, but I’d bet the women will be in skimpy outfits and the majority of the men will be in full-body costumes, some with fake muscles. Except for That Guy, who will be in Superman underoos.
And now, let’s look at The Private Affair’s upcoming themes:
- Seven Deadly Sins/Angels and Devils
- Mocha Night
- Breast Cancer Awareness/Drag Queen
- Role Play
- Newbie Night
- Unicorn Night
- Halloween
The Seven Deadly Sins/Angels and Devils works for either gender. Mocha nights are a club takeover by the local Mocha Group; it’s an interracial night. We’ve not been (yet), but I hear it’s a fun party. Role Play night lists a lot of solid potential for guys and girls.
Out of all those themes, very few give direction to what kind of sexy outfit a man can or should wear. Men’s attire is an afterthought at best.
Podcasts
We love us some podcasts. We’ve learned quite a bit from the ones we’ve listened to, and most of what we’ve heard furthers my theory.
That Couple Next Door
When Kay describes the men that excite her, she usually describes the whole package. Take The Artist for example: He’s intelligent, worldly, well-dressed (J. Crew I believe she called him) with longish wavy, well-kept hair. Kay doesn’t dwell on what he looks like naked; rather, she’s attracted to how he presents as a whole.
Way back in Episode 3, Jay and Kay talk about their first house party. What does Kay do to prepare? Trip to Victoria’s Secret for a new hot pink bra and panties set. Got her hair done. Got her nails done. What does Jay wear? Jeans and polo shirt. “Cause I’m a guy and can get away with it.” (time: 14:20)
In a more recent episode, Jay and Kay went on a sexy vacation with lifestyle friends, and they all got super fit to party it up in Mexico. One of their friends sent an email pre-trip noting that the women should pay special attention to the hard work their men did getting their abs on point for the trip. (time: 53:33) I found this interesting because (a) it puts the men in this group in that 5% category I mentioned earlier and (b) it highlights that men’s bodies (and the effort put into them) are usually a secondary consideration. It had to be called out by one of the women that the groups should appreciate this effort.
Swinger Diaries
During their episode about house parties, Paige and Pen explain that several house parties they have been to, the host couple encourages/expects guests to change out of their “arrival” clothes into something sexier in order to create the right atmosphere for play. (time: 12:00) Paige has described some of her outfits, but I don’t think we’ve heard what the men change into.
Swinging Downunder
We’ve only just started getting into Cate and Darrell’s journeys, but we adore their humor. Even early on, Cate describes her sexy go-to lifestyle outfit that makes her feel good. Darrell wears jeans and a shirt “which is what men get to wear” (time: 3:50).
As I was writing this blog, I saw the recent episode about male body image advertised on Twitter. I had to give it a listen before wrapping this as the subject matter was on point. Several brave gentlemen submitted recordings of their personal body concerns and how they are dealing with them. I had already written most of this piece, and that episode helped solidify some of my own thoughts.
Why Is the Ambiguity of Male Sexiness a Problem?
Or to put it another way: “Dude…WTF is your issue? Dress nice and stop making a big deal about it.”
I have two problems.
Erin (and Other Ladies) Put in a Lot of Work
We’ve not been to a house party (yet), but I see what Paige and Penn are talking about at the clubs all the time. Many ladies bring a change of clothing. Erin didn’t at first, but as she got more comfortable in the environment and realized that she is sexy and that other people want to see her in skimpy, revealing outfits, she started to bring skimpier outfits to change into. Awesome for me and other guys at the club.
But I can’t return the favor.
In fact, as far as I can tell, the best I could do is put on more clothes. Start in a nice T-shirt and pants, then switch to naval officer uniform. Or switch to a nice button-down and roll the sleeve. Or change into a suit.
With the right theme I could add a hardhat and toolbelt, but if that’s the theme, I’d be wearing that from the start.
All this means I can’t reciprocate by changing into something sexy myself. I’ve shown up in the sexiest thing I can wear; a decent outfit. Nice shirt and jeans. How exciting.
I Want to Feel Sexy, Too!
Recall what I said in the previous section: Because Erin saw how sexy the other girls in lingerie were and could see how sexy everyone in the club found them, she felt more comfortable wearing sexy clothes. Other girls switching to revealing lingerie was a boost to her own body image. Which led her to wearing revealing lingerie. Which led to that bodystocking thing she wore last week, which is fucking hot. Lucky me!
I don’t see a similar feedback loop for men. Yes, other guys are more comfortable being shirtless than I. But I didn’t see women ogling them. Or running hands across bare chests. Nothing to make me think the ladies thought the open shirts were a boon.
This is a point Darrell makes in the recent Swinging Downunder. Cate asks the question at 21:37, “Can we talk about your body image before you went into the lifestyle, and then your body image now that you’ve been in the lifestyle?”
His reply sums up exactly what I mean by not seeing the same feedback loop for men: “I don’t think my body image has changed pre and post, and I think that’s probably…that’s due to the fact that men typically don’t receive compliments in or out of the lifestyle.”
In talking about this, Erin noted that she thinks women are conditioned to not openly sexualize the male physique. It could very well be that women do find the shirtlessness attractive. I’m just not seeing the feedback loop for men.
I’m enough of an attention whore that if I saw ladies digging on that, I’d rip open my shirt like motherfucking Superman about to save a busload of kids going over a cliff. Except that one black shirt I have. I really like how that fits.
Looking Good Versus Feeling Sexy
I can dress up for a night out, look at myself in the mirror, and honestly say, “Damn, I look good!”
That doesn’t mean I feel sexy.
It means I feel like I’ve made an effort. I clipped my nails, got my hair cut, and even used a little product. Sometimes I match my belt to my shoes. I hear that’s a thing. Does anyone even notice? I have no idea.
At least I know what Erin finds sexy, which is the most important thing.
The Ambiguity of Male Sexiness and Photos
If other guys feel this same ambiguity of male sexiness, then could this be a leading cause for men to not include their pictures in swinger profiles? This is a topic covered in the episode of We Gotta Thing during which Joneses discussed swinger profiles with Dave and Andi, the creators of the dating site Double Date Nation. (time: 55:20)
During the same episode, Mr. Jones asks, “What do you ladies find sexy in guys?” (time: 42:06)
The answers? Personality. Sense of humor. Wittiness. The ladies describe themselves as sapiosexuals: a person who finds intelligence sexually attractive or arousing.
That picture of me flexing at the top of this post? I did it to prove my point. Erin likes it. I feel like a douchebag for using it. I don’t think it’s a sexy picture of me. It doesn’t convey personality, sense of humor, or wit. I’m not hooking a sapiosexual with it.
Maybe that’s why it works for Erin, though. She already likes my personality, so she can sit back and just enjoy the view.
Shane’s Takeaways: What Do Women Want to See?
As you can tell, Erin and I have been talking about this topic for days. Then I’ve been writing about it for days. In the end, she pointed out that I kind of answered my own questions:
There is no male equivalent of lingerie. Women might have certain things they personally like, but overall, there is nothing I can wear that’s going to drip sex appeal to a wide audience. The sleeveless look does it for Erin, but it might make me look douchey if I try that at the club.
In fact, it might make me in particular look douchey if I tried that. It’s easy to see I’m a big, broad-shouldered guy no matter what I wear. If I go shirtless or sleeveless, I’m playing into the Bro stereotype. People might make immediate assumptions about me if it looks like I’m showing off my arms that they wouldn’t make about someone who isn’t as thick.
Which means my best option is simply to make the effort, dress nicely, groom well, and be confident that I don’t look like a slob.
From there, engage the wit, humor, and charm. “How you doin’?”
“Other Women Have Wanted to Play With You….”
Erin also made this point. We’ve played with other couples before, which means other women must find me attractive (or at least attractive enough). Fair point well made. But that’s not the point of this…essay? Novella? Lunacy?
My point is physical sex appeal versus general attraction. I clean up well and generally feel like I can be engaging in conversation. Mrs. Jones says a guy “can giggle my panties off of me.” (time: 42:33) All of those things are wrapped into that general attraction that can be created in the abscense of physical sex appeal.
What I was searching for through all this is how to create the physical sex appeal. Not because I feel like I need it to “up my swinger game” but because I would like to feel that women wanted to have sex with me for my body as well as my personality.
Women Complimenting Men
Another shout out to Darrell and his talking about body image. I am inspired.
“Ladies, it’s time to step up. You’re all giving each other really good compliments …” (time: 22:24)
Erin pointed this out as well before we even listened to the episode. Women compliment each other. They’ll even compliment other women they don’t really know. But they don’t compliment men, particularly men they don’t know. And I understand why. Toss a compliment about the way a guy looks and he might take that to be more of an invite than it was meant.
I wouldn’t because I’m awful at reading signals (another post entirely).
We men need to be better at taking compliments from women without reading too much into it.
“But Shane, haven’t you just spent forty minutes saying you want women to compliment you because you have physical sex appeal?”
Yes, but I don’t expect a woman to want to have sex with me just because she finds me physically attractive. I know I have to—and I still want to—hit the other points as well.
Ladies, don’t give out compliments if you aren’t comfortable doing so. I would never advocate for that. But maybe, if you see a guy looking good and you have enough of a rapport with him to do so, let him know his effort is appreciated.
Men Complimenting Men
But Darrell has another call to action, though less explicitly stated: Men, it’s time to step up! We need to bolster each other!
Darrell has a vendetta against men not complimenting each other to the point he’ll even give a fellow’s fellow a nod: “Guys, if you get ‘Hey, nice cock!’ from me just say ‘Thank you’…’Cheers, bro’ and get on.” (time: 22:57)
I’m not homophobic, but I am concerned about making other men uncomfortable by coming across as interested in them. I’m not sure if men in the lifestyle are more sensitive to that than those outside it.
On the one hand, aren’t most lifestyle guys comfortable with incidental male touching during play? I’ve had vanilla friends make comments about how MFM would be weird ‘cause there’s another naked guy there.
On the other hand, don’t we need to be a little more cautious about signals to make sure we aren’t putting out a vibe for something we aren’t interested in? I don’t want to toss a guy a compliment and have him on the defensive about if I’m trying to MMF with him. I’m also not going to add #nohomo to any compliment I give a guy.
But if Darrell can go around complimenting guys’ cocks, surely I can give another man a compliment on how he looks.
We’re all in this together, my lifestyle brothers!
Literally…if it’s a gangbang.